Former Area Authority Speaks to New York Times about Doubts

A lot of hubbub is floating around many mormon circles concerning an article posted from the New York Times on July 20th. In the article Laurie Goodstein speaks to Hans Mattsson who is a former Area Authority in Europe who no longer believe in the church because of researching conflicting information concerning the LDS church’s history. In the article Greg Prince states:

“Consider a Catholic cardinal suddenly going to the media and saying about his own church, ‘I don’t buy a lot of this stuff,’ ” Mr. Prince said. “That’s the level we’re talking about here.” He said of Mr. Mattsson, “He is, as far as I know, the highest-ranking church official who has gone public with deep concerns, who has had a faith crisis and come forward to say he’s going to talk about it because maybe that will help us all to resolve it.”

I’m extremely grateful that Mr. Mattsson has gone public with his experience. There are many people out there that are going through their own “crisis of faith” and it brings a great deal of comfort to know that someone who was in his position can go through something similar. It brings me comfort even if has been a few years since I dismantled my own belief system.

You can access the NYT article here.

The short accompanying video clip.

And be sure to listen to his recent interview on Mormon Stories Podcast as well.

You can also access the transcript on the Special Fireside for Disaffected Swedish LDS Saints Speakers featuring Elder Marlin K. Jensen (LDS Church Historian) and Richard E. Turley Jr. (Assistant Church Historian) Held on November 28, 2010. Location: Västerhaninge Chapel; Stockholm, Sweden.

Our Thoughts: From the Peacewriter Writers- Celebrating the Peacewriter's 100th Post

  

To celebrate the 100th post, several of the writers on the blog put together their thoughts about the journey, finding peace, and accepting the paths others around us choose as well.  

From St. Jude:

Ex-Mormon, Inactive, Jack Mormon… we slap a title on them and think we have them all figured out. But the reality is under that label is a husband, a father, a daughter…

Imagine if your life was celebrated rather than judged. Imagine if we could all stop judging each other’s lives and start celebrating them. What if today we stopped referring to people who have left the church as an apostate, or deceived, or lost? Maybe today we could refer to them by a standard not set by a church; rather we could call them a good man, a good mother, a loving son, a compassionate daughter. What if today we stopped judging them by a belief system; today we are only allowed to judge them fairly, from our heart and what we know to be true about them.

No church can compensate for a family’s love and support.

Can we give ourselves permission to celebrate the lives of those we love even if they chose a path other than our own? D &C 64:10 I, the Lord, will forgive whom I will forgive, but of you it is required to forgive all men.” This is what unconditional love looks like. These are your children, your parents, your friends; they are not commodities that should be set at distance because they don’t agree with your world view. Do your family members really have to attend church to receive your love and support? If you’re answer is “I do love them but…” that “but” is a fail marker. Can you say a prayer for their happiness that doesn’t include a miracle to bring them back to your vision of how their life should be? Time is ticking away from all of us.  How much time has to pass before we can see there is so much more to a person than a belief system.

For those who have left the church, this unconditional love is a two way street. It’s ok for you to be happy for your family members who are going off on missions, marrying in the temple, spending their Friday night date night at the cannery. Your vision of life is not their vision of life, but it makes them happy, and brings them peace. Happiness and peace should be things we hope for each other. Its’ ok to ask “ How was the temple?” It won’t kill you to hear them say how they felt the spirit and received what they feel was an answer to prayer. It won’t kill you to say “that’s great, I’m glad you had a good experience there.”

All of us need to take off the rose colored glasses of judgment that we see each other through. Stop looking from outward sources at these people we label and see them from your heart, See them with love and compassion, find a reason to celebrate life with them, not in spite of them. It won’t affect your own salvation, but then again, being a little more Christ like just might. 

From Angela:

Mormons draw on history to affirm their faith. They feel the angst of young Joseph as he kneels in the grove of trees, the worry of Emma (his wife) when her husband is imprisoned, the hope and fear of men and women as they cross the plains in search of religious freedom. 

These things are in the past, but many of us feel them in the present. The pain and anguish of our ancestors become our own pain and anguish, cementing us together not only as a people who believe in a similar theology, but as a people grounded in a common past. This isn't an easy thing to leave behind.

From Tom:

I have spent a good deal of time of my life as a firm believer in Christ, God and the authority the LDS church claims it has.  And after going through my personal crisis of faith, I’ve spent the last four years in a state of unbelief and uncertainty.  It didn’t take me long to realize that I’ve been trying to walk on a path with very little footing.  My foundation had been ripped out from under me and I was in a place of trying to rebuild my spiritual identity from the ground up. 

So in these last few years I’ve encountered a great deal of hurt, anger, pain, betrayal and permanent damage from many people who have gone through a crisis of faith of their own.  Some find a “home” in their anger, or resentment towards the church.  I understand that.  I’ve also seen many people burn bridges with family and loved ones all in reaction of losing their faith in the church.  In fact, I’ve been one of those who burned a few bridges of my own and I regret that.  So I am now in a place where I am more interested in building bridges, rather than burning them.

This place, this blog, was created by a dear friend of mine.  This person said to me, “wouldn’t it be great to have a place where people could find peace and solace through each other, regardless of beliefs?”  And it was our own Stephanie’s words that immediately became the motto for this place.  Loving and accepting words. 

I still have my phases of anger towards the church.  No doubt.  I have trouble with things said to me and my family that I firmly disagree with.  I currently reside in a forced position of having to navigate these crazy waters.  Would I like to not deal with trying to sustain a relationship with the church?  Yes.  Would I rather leave the church and permanently damage my marriage and family relationships?  Absolutely not. 

So why this place Tom?  Well, in my four year journey thus far I’ve seen how much beauty there is in other people.  And I don’t give a flying shoot about what they believe anymore.  I don’t have a single ounce of missionary intentions in me any longer.  I have NO interest in converting anyone one way or another.  What I am interested in is hearing and seeing what works for people and what they have gone through to be who they are today. 

I have recently become involved with suicide prevention.  Hearing stories of those who have lost a loved one through suicide will change you and as I continue to be more and more involved with those involved I will continue to change. 

I am not a wise person.  I don’t have any good and lasting answers for people.  I can share my experiences and hope that something I’ve gone through can give peace or possibly spark an idea for them.  I am in a position with more questions than any real answers.  I recently told a friend that I feel like I’m a sponge, just trying to soak in as much as I can to help me get a better perspective of where I’m headed.  I am still trying to build a spiritual foundation for myself.  So, I’m still on the ground level spiritually and I can often get overwhelmed with how much work I need to do. 

So I would like to personally thank all of The Peacewriter readers for coming here by, reading, sharing and leaving comments.  But I really want to give a virtual hug of sincere thanks to those who have come here and contributed:  St. Jude, Oliver, Ingrid, Mel and most recently Angela. 

But I would most like to publicly thank Stephanie.  Because without her, this place would not exist and so many of these powerful words that have had a direct influence my life would have never been spoken or written. 

I consider myself just a fan.

From Stephanie:

Recently a friend posted a comment on a message board that went something like this:

I don't know that any of us have to understand why other people choose to remain active or maintain affiliation with the church and others do not. What works for some people does not work for others.

My thoughts exactly. 

The power in that quote is in the acknowledgement that there are different paths to choose and for those of us who live on the fringes, it is nice to have someone willing to back you up, no matter where your path is taking you.

Like many others who have been down the same road I have yet to find a road map that tells me what comes next.  The way is different for everyone.  For me, it has become about a quest for peace and a place to belong.

The vision for The Peacewriter was a simple one inspired by an amazing friend whose life choices reminded me that there is value in finding a middle path, of working through the hills and valleys and finding peace along the way.  In the beginning I was angry and wanted to destroy everything I could that reminded me of the Church.  But the example of my friend and the words of others taught me that I was going from one black and white worldview to another.

I wanted to create a place where people could come and talk things through, to find peace through words and thoughts and ideas.  To some, the words may seem harsh or even critical at times, but to others, there may be something resonating.  And maybe, another traveler might feel less alone on the rocky and winding trail.

I hope we have accomplished just that.  I want to dedicate this 100^th post to the many writers who have shared their thoughts and made this place just what I hoped it would be.  My journey has been made bearable by reading their words and feeling the love of the friends who have crossed my path.  I can only hope The Peacewriter has given others a place to find peace as they traverse their own paths.

Buyer's Remorse

I love music. Who am I kidding? I really LOVE music. Some music can create a temporary vacation in my heart and mind, depending on the song of course. Country music can create the opposite of a vacation. Sorry Garth Brooks fans, but he isn’t very good.

Anyway, I recently found myself in need for some new headphones. I had some extra money set aside for this very occasion, so I decided to go a little big and purchase some high quality headphones. So I purchased my first pair of Skullcandy chrome FMJ’s. These babies were sweet and built very sturdy and the sound was amazing! But, after only a month of fair usage, they started to short out. The left ear eventually stopped working. Yes, I even caught myself leaning my head to one side thinking that it was my head’s position that was the problem. I was very angry. I had purchased only the mid to cheap headphones up to this point and the one time I decide to go big time and expensive, they didn’t even last a month?! Yeah, I was pissed. I did send them back and use the lifetime warranty to get them replaced, but instead of getting another pair of FMJ’s, I opted to get the FIXED ear buds instead.

So, I began to think about all the things I could have purchased with that money instead of those stupid expensive headphones. And I started to feel frustrated about the time I would be without a good pair of headphones while I waited for the replacement. I fell into what’s commonly known as buyer’s remorse.

Regret and I go way back. We have spent a lot of time together. One particular time when I almost overdosed on regret was when my friend Joe killed himself. Why didn’t I hang out with him more? Why wasn’t I a better friend?

Another glaring moment of regret is my mission. I also regret selling my 1969 mustang for my mission. I also regret getting married so young and starting a family so early. I think you get where I’m going. I have many, many regrets and it finds its way to overwhelm me at times.

I know, I know. I shouldn’t regret so much of my life. I wish I didn’t. I’m honestly working on it, believe me. I can hear you thinking, “Maybe he should spend a little more time looking forward instead of what is already behind him.” Fine. You wanna play the obvious card? I’ll accept that.

One of the things that I also use as a coping mechanism or way of healing is to accept what I have and find enjoyment in it. It’s certainly not easy, but it is what it is. My daughter recently told me how lucky and blessed she is. So I asked her why she feels that way. She then went on to explain the many problems and trials some of her friends at school have. One has a severe medical issue that requires heavy medication and the occasional surgery. She has had a surgery once a year for the past five years. One friend was severely sexually abused several years ago by a relative. One friend has 5 siblings and they live in a two bedroom apartment and she sleeps on the couch at night.

What I learned from that wonderful example of a daughter of mine is that I still have had a pretty good life. Why am I complaining about all that? I should be not only be looking forward but take some time in being thankful for what I have. So many others out there don’t have the same “privilege” that I have been blessed with. Count your blessings Tom. Sheesh.

So let me see if I can define the moral to this post. Find ways to enjoy good music, but not country music. You can buy expensive things, but they can still break. And it’s a real good chance your kids will be smarter than you and find creative ways to help you realize how selfish you are.

Thoughts on Suicide

I had to confront suicide of a good friend recently. I’ve been fortunate that this is the first time someone close to me has committed suicide. This was a whole new experience for me. I’ve dealt with death many times, some unexpected, some were a welcome from the suffering. What I found interesting was the unexpected emotions that I was confronted with. Anger, regret, betrayal were some of these. These are new emotions for me to tie with a death. I gotta tell you, this was new to me.

I spoke to this friend only hours before he took his own life. He left no note and his family hasn’t said much what they speculate as to what the cause may have been. I began to wonder why do we all need to find the reason, or cause of what caused him to do this? What if he had slowly been planning this? What if something completely out of the blue set him over the edge in one moment? But the real question is, why do we need to know? Is it to simply satisfy our need to calm our unclear nerves or minds? I think it is telling that all of us feel like we need to have a clear, logical answer to something that is completely unexpected and unnerving.

Suicide isn’t something that hasn’t crossed each of our minds at one time or another. As humans we all deal with emotions that involved depression. It’s not a good experience. Some require therapy and medication to cope with severe depression. I am not immune to this either. I have thought about taking my life to the extent of planning out an action to do it. I was in my teens and I was very depressed. This is nothing new looking from the outside in, but to me at that time, it was all consuming. Nothing else mattered. Nothing. I went as far as pushing the knife in causing only a small cut, but luckily I chickened out before it got really serious.

So in a very small way I found I was jealous of my friend. I know how messed up that sounds, but to be honest I still find myself with suicidal thoughts. But I never entertain those thoughts very long. As harsh as it sounds, suicide is a very selfish act and I could never put those I dearly love through something like that.

In fact, my 12 year old daughter recently told me that she has thought about suicide from time to time. This wasn’t something that I wanted to hear from her. After I calmed myself down I sat next to her and told her about my friend. I told her some brief things about him. Things like he was a father of 4 kids, had a great job and how generally happy he was. I then went on and told her about the times I’ve thought about it as well. With her eyes wide open I said, “Tell you what. If you do decide to go through with it please come talk to me before you do anything. And in return, I will do the same to you. And even after talking to me if you are still determined to still go through with it, we will do it together. Because, to be completely honest with you sweetie, I just don’t want to be around if you won’t be here to share life with me. So what do you think? Deal?” With tears in both of our eyes, we did a pinky swear on it. So the deal is now set in stone.

I’m still having a tough time coping with my friend taking his life. I wish I could have been a better friend to him. Someone he felt like he could trust and confide in. But I loved him and even if I was that friend he may have still done this. Who really knows? But what I do know is that death is hard to cope with, but suicide is something that I wish on no one. Suicide is easy for the one who does it, but the family and friends who are left. Man. That just isn’t fair. I just wish that my friend would have taken a moment to really consider those who loved him dearly before himself.

So if you are in that place, or just simply considering it, will you do us all a favor and talk to someone first? Anyone. In fact, I freely extend the offer of a listening ear. I do know how overwhelming those feelings can be.

Letter of apology

Dear Bxxxx Exxxx,

My name is Tom Perry. You probably don’t remember me, but I remember you. A few years ago you lived in my ward (XXXXXX Ward) for a brief period of time. In this ward, I was the Elder’s Quorum President. One evening, you let me and one of my councilors in your home. I went to your home knowing you were inactive with the intentions of being able to help resolve your concerns and potentially reactivate you. I also remember at the time you told us that you were separated from your wife.

There are a few reasons this particular evening has been forever scarred in my memory. Let me try to explain the events from my perspective so you can understand where I’m coming from. First and foremost, I remember you being very warm and welcoming. I remember you showing us your custom arcade machine (which I’m still very impressed about, by the way). Then the conversation slowly changed toward the Church. I remember you specifically responding to the question as to why don’t you attend. It was something like, “I just don’t think the church is what it claims. I don’t think the church is the one and only true church. I think it can be a good thing, I just don’t believe in it anymore.”

I remember being stunned and shocked. I recall asking if you had served a mission. I asked what your feelings were about your spiritual experiences while serving. You responded very politely and said that after much reflection and study you no longer believe those experiences were a direct consequence of the spirit. I seem to recall you said that you thought that the spirit might just be our own personal feelings and emotions, nothing else.

Now let me get to my reason for writing this. Just a few years after our meeting, I went through a crisis of faith of my own. It was completely unrelated to meeting with you, but I can’t help but think that some of your words planted a seed or two in my thoughts. I confronted the historical issue of the Mountain Meadows Massacre and all of its deep conflicts, which I had never fully understood until then. I turned to Apologetics, which only sped up my disaffection. About 18 months later I came to the conclusion that I no longer believe that the church is what it claims to be.

I confronted all those important in my life: spouse, friends and family. I collected my research and wrote a long letter to all of them. I was serving on the High Council at the time. It was a very dark time in my life. I suffered threats, shunning, and my marriage was on very thin ice. Only a very small number of people actually accepted me and my new changes. Long story short, my wife and I have found some common ground to rebuild our relationship from the ground up and are still happily together today. But, I have suffered permanent damage in other relationships, namely with parents and siblings. I do know the importance of good trustworthy friends in a time like that.

So, now that I am a disbeliever who still attends church for the sole reason to keep peace and hold his family together, I can’t help but reflect on that discussion we had that day. If I could go back, this is what I would have liked to have said to you: “Bxxxx, I can’t imagine the pain you are suffering and going through right now. I think it is immensely wrong that you have to suffer the loss of many committed and loved friendships because of your lack of belief in the church. I would like to offer you my friendship. And may I say this one thing. I commend you for your integrity. You stood up for what was honest and truthful, even at the risk and cost of losing relationships. You sir, are a man of honor and integrity. I am proud to say that I have met you and had the chance to have spoken with you.”

So in the end Bxxxx, can I just say one thing? I am truly sorry. I am sorry that I didn’t listen to you. I am sorry I responded exactly the way the church would have wanted me to respond. I’m sorry that I wasn’t a friend for you in that dark time. If only I would have genuinely listened to you instead of dismissing you outright... Who knows.

This letter may seem a bit silly and a bit over reactive, but I needed to say it. That meeting with you has kept me up at night. I’ve been ashamed of my actions that day and I hope that someday you could forgive me. Maybe you hold no resentment towards me, well then maybe all this is just a way where I can begin to forgive myself.

-Tom

Where Does That Leave Me?

When I was first seriously considering the possibility that the Church wasn’t the one and only true Church I immediately sought out where this leaves me spiritually. Where exactly does this leave me in relation to God? Jesus Christ? This quickly became my next big focus.

Because if I were to reject the Mormon faith, what kind of faith would I end up with?

I vividly remember my first interaction with Bob McCue. I was on the phone with him, explaining my situation. He was one of a select few that offered a listening ear and some very sound advice to me in my time of need. One of the first things I asked him was where he was spiritually now that he has left the Church. He was very hesitant and responded, “I suppose I’m agnostic. But I find that question very difficult to answer.”

In a lot of ways, his answer scared me. So, if someone as smart as Bob hasn’t come to a concise conclusion about who or what God is, what does that mean for me?

The Myth of Objectivity

I like to believe that I’m objective, but who am I kidding really?  Do I truly believe that I’m the only one out there that can escape my own bias?  Yet, I still find myself shaking my head in utter shock in response to some of these people I converse with on how wrong they are.  How THEY can’t seem to see past their own preconceived notions and prejudices.  If they could just see past their own bias, they could then see how wrong they are and then see that I’M RIGHT.

I want to be right, no, I NEED to be right.  I want to know the truth, like most of us.  I don’t want to be the one who was heading the wrong direction and have to make that embarrassing turn back.  I want to know from the get go that I’m heading in the right direction.  I also have enough confidence in myself that I can tell the difference from what is right from what is wrong.  I like to think that I’m not one that can easily be fooled.

One Eternal Round

A few years ago, I was desperate to talk to anyone who could give me some answers, direction or advice.  I was in a very dark place mentally, spiritually and emotionally.  I turned to apologetics, which provided some temporary answers.  In the end, it gave me much more